accurate or deluded perception

topic posted Wed, April 23, 2008 - 2:25 PM by  joe
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Can neuroscience differentiate between accurate and inaccurate perceptions at the level of brain activity?
posted by:
joe
offline joe
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: accurate or deluded perception

    Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:39 PM
    The short answer is no, but you have raised a valid question.

    I watched a documentary on television where the topic involved the human brain and lie detection. The whole show involved how science and mechanics had tried for years to "prove" when someone was either lying or giving an inaccurate perception different from facts. The results are often inconclusive. However one very interesting phenomenon happened under testing. One test subject was told to lie and then to tell the truth while scientists and doctors would "read" his brain on a computer. When he told the truth, one side of his brain would light up (being mostly in recall) and when he told a lie, a separate part of his brain would begin to light up. The part that makes this inconclusive is that often times, before a person tells a lie, they often have to go to the "truth" portion first to be able to self-determine if they can, indeed, tell a convincable enough lie. I, myself, would like to see more research done in this area.
    • Re: accurate or deluded perception

      Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:41 PM
      In continuation with my post, you might find this article interesting involving MRI and deception:

      www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11...w_truth/
      • Re: accurate or deluded perception

        Mon, April 28, 2008 - 4:03 PM
        isabella, i don't think the original question was just about the neurobiology of deception, but of inaccurate perception and delusion. they certainly can relate to each quite a lot, but i think we may come up with slightly different answers based on the distinction.

        delusion is discernible quite frequently neurobiologically. consider how often delusional perceptions bring someone to the attention of a psychiatrist or neurologist. hearing voices or believing a ghost is following you or something like that is usually something we can and do get an idea about what's going wrong in the brain, especially if it's the result of a lesion. check out their sensory circuits for problems. too much dopamine as cause can be tested with a dopamine-reducing drug, though i wish there were more direct ways...

        now if we're talking about popular and somewhat adaptive delusions in an otherwise functioning person...

        i suppose you could witness the signalling going on and deduce certain things. beliefs occur more quickly than disbelief or uncertainty in the brain; you could look for amygdala metabolism and see if it's playing a part in an fMRI while the person stated the beliefs in question, and whether it's most active along the thalamus-amygdama or thalamus-cortex pathway to see how much more automated emotional resonses are active... you could measure galvanic skin response for signs of unconscious conflict.

        the thing with deception vs. delusion is that delusion may not have signs of inner inconsistency the way deception would. people may believe a delusion all the way, through and through, i would suppose. it depends on the nature of the belief or perception.
  • Re: accurate or deluded perception

    Mon, April 28, 2008 - 4:27 PM
    i think you could also look for inconsistency with self-reports, other people's points of view, and various brain activities. for example, if you see excitation of the olfactory circuit of a certain character when nothing really smells much in the room, and the person says they smell an elephant or something, and you see no elephant, well..

    i suppose there are some other ways, if you are really stuck on the brain-only question. some signaling might appear more like noise than a steady stream of external stimuli in sensory pathways. you might be able to tell from seeing a representation of the metaboilsm over time that it wasn't the usual manner perception might look.

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